Great point that it was God and not Moses at the Red Sea.
I'm more from the literal-miracle camp, but I appreciate your insisting that God's miracles are working inside God's world, not magically (and meaninglessly) undermining them.
In understanding miracles, and all workings of God, I find very helpful Maimonides' teaching that spiritual being and processes are the real reality, because they don't have limited bodies that live to die. So yes it's very logical that God is real in the deeper sense of reality - and can split seas of water and reeds that exist in a corporeal world where everything comes and goes.
Not to get overly scientific, but how shallow does a “sea” need to be for a wind to hold the water at bay overnight?
But I take the point that the passage is not quite as dramatic in its description of the physical occurrence as we Jews and Christians tend to think. (Though the overall depiction is definitely dramatic.)
I take your point, and there is no question that readers of every generation understand this to be a very dramatic moment. But I'd say the language of the text suggests something more unusual than impossible.
It’s an interesting read of the passage! My own intellectual emphasis is on how God does indeed work through the ordinary workings of nature, so I’m sympathetic in a way.
Is this a broader intellectual approach to your Judaism, or do you take a passage by passage?
I'd say it's consistent with my broader intellectual approach, and also, consistent with Judaism's intellectual approach, too, if that makes sense.
The caveat here is that Judaism speaks with many voices (as my rabbi says). So I can easily imagine a different writer coming to different conclusions, or at least placing the point of emphasis differently.
As I alluded, I think a "middle way here" is discerning between miracles and magic.
From a spiritual worldview, miracles are logical things that are part of the way the world works - because the world is much more than what our material eyes can perceive.
Much of the criticism against miracles are non-intellectual should really be directed, I believe, at magic, that is the perception that reality is something that can be undermined and avoided.
Judaism, as I understand it, is confidently pro-miracles, and just as confidently anti-magic.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
Great point that it was God and not Moses at the Red Sea.
I'm more from the literal-miracle camp, but I appreciate your insisting that God's miracles are working inside God's world, not magically (and meaninglessly) undermining them.
In understanding miracles, and all workings of God, I find very helpful Maimonides' teaching that spiritual being and processes are the real reality, because they don't have limited bodies that live to die. So yes it's very logical that God is real in the deeper sense of reality - and can split seas of water and reeds that exist in a corporeal world where everything comes and goes.
Not to get overly scientific, but how shallow does a “sea” need to be for a wind to hold the water at bay overnight?
But I take the point that the passage is not quite as dramatic in its description of the physical occurrence as we Jews and Christians tend to think. (Though the overall depiction is definitely dramatic.)
I take your point, and there is no question that readers of every generation understand this to be a very dramatic moment. But I'd say the language of the text suggests something more unusual than impossible.
It’s an interesting read of the passage! My own intellectual emphasis is on how God does indeed work through the ordinary workings of nature, so I’m sympathetic in a way.
Is this a broader intellectual approach to your Judaism, or do you take a passage by passage?
I'd say it's consistent with my broader intellectual approach, and also, consistent with Judaism's intellectual approach, too, if that makes sense.
The caveat here is that Judaism speaks with many voices (as my rabbi says). So I can easily imagine a different writer coming to different conclusions, or at least placing the point of emphasis differently.
Love the convo here, so important.
As I alluded, I think a "middle way here" is discerning between miracles and magic.
From a spiritual worldview, miracles are logical things that are part of the way the world works - because the world is much more than what our material eyes can perceive.
Much of the criticism against miracles are non-intellectual should really be directed, I believe, at magic, that is the perception that reality is something that can be undermined and avoided.
Judaism, as I understand it, is confidently pro-miracles, and just as confidently anti-magic.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
I love hearing that your daughter asks similar questions. Answering those questions pushes us adults to deeper understanding.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.
Josh, it’s great to see you writing about the Torah - and fathering.
My daughter asks similar questions.
I love how you point out some nuances that people forget (or never knew), like the wind blowing all night.
I reckon the most dramatic event that evening is how Yahweh prevents pharaoh from attacking the Israelites:
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20 coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night.